introduction to the list and answers about fin's messages
ni co lu
nicolu at chutelibre.org
Lun 5 Avr 17:01:41 CEST 2004
(d'abord en anglais puis en français)
hi fin and others.
I think that if there are no other comments made, maybe
it would be possible to send the questionnaire (and maybe if you feel like
it also your text about women-only and gender lab wich I personnally think
are really great introductions and quite short and readable for everybody)
on the process list.
I also would like to propose people who are on this list to introduce shortly
themselves and activities linked with gender problematics, so that we know a
bit more each other and who's on the list.
I'll try to do it myself as soon as I have a bit of time and to propose an
introduction to the usefullness of men only spaces.
I also know that all the people on this list really don't have the same
access, and time to do internet and writings + not the same facilities to
communicate in english which doesn't help egalitarian communication.
So we have to think about it.
But...I will at least to translate some things in french (but without
promising too much depending on time)
salut fin et les autres.
je pense que si il n'y a pas d'autres comentaires, peut-être qu'il serait
possible d'envoyer le questionnaire (ainsi que les textes sur les espaces
non-mixte femme et la présentation du gender lab qui sont je pense de très
bonnes intro et assez courtes pour être lues facilement) sur la liste pga
Je voulai aussi proposer que les personnes qui sont sur la liste prennent
aussi un peu de temps pour se présenter en quelques phrases courtes afin que
l'on se connaissent un minimum et que l'on sache quelles sont nos activités
liées avec les problématiques de genre.
Je vais essayer moi-même de le faire dès que j'ai un peu de temps, et puis
aussi de proposer un court texte sur l'intérêt des groupes non-mixtes mecs.
Je pense aussi que toutes les personnes sur cette liste n'ont pas le même
accès à internet, temps pour écrire et pas le mêmes facilités pour
communniquer en anglais ce qui ne facilite pas des discussions plus
égalitaires. Donc il faut que l'on prenne cela en considération.
J'essaierai au moins en fonction de mon temps de traduire quelques trucs en
bisous / nicolu
fin disait :
> heres a rant that came out the other day when i heard
> that women only and men only spaces were not to be
> permitted in belgrade:
> To refuse to allow space for others to be and do in
> ways which they have expressed a need for is to
> exercise POWER and CONTROL over them.
> To refuse women a safe space in which to gatehr is
> denial that we exist in a patriarchal hierarchical
> system and means that women grappling with their own
> disempowered psyches are forced to battle continuously
> to be heard and respected in mixed social situations
> or to bow down to their social conditioning and submit
> to the authority of men.
> Studying this it is most apparent in the non verbal
> behaviour of men around women.
> Many men upon entering a social space containing
> mainly women will feel the need to express their
> dominance within the space. This they will do by
> calling attention to themselves, by making noise,
> using dominant (often playfully aggresive) body
> language to "take" space and disturbing the previous
> balance of interaction within the space so that
> everyone knows HE is not a woman and is in charge.
> This makes it really hard to talk sometimes for women
> who are not always conciouslly aware of these things
> (although all are instinctivley aware and feel the
> negative feelings inflicted upon them by these forms
> of negative gendered behaviour).
> In mixed social space women are often ignored, talked
> over, only have what they say taken seriously if
> repeated by a man and made to feel ill at ease even
> being present due to many men's need to dominate space
> Women are effectiveley gagged.
> Feelings (attributed to be feminine and therefore
> dirty) are not disscussed, only facts (attributed to
> be masculine and therefore godly).
> This must be a terribly hard status structure for men
> to break also, how can they feel safe to disscus their
> dirty feelings with others and fall from a state of
> godhood ?
> If women cannot share their stories, how can we
> discover what it is that we are trying to fight within
> How can we disccuss our feelings which are the
> expression of much of our social conditioning ?
> How can we learn to break our conditioning when
> constanly subjugated by it and denied the right to
> express it ?
> Or to be able to work out how to communicate our
> knowledge with men when socially we are conditioned to
> disregard our own thoughts and needs and always listen
> to the men.
> For these reasons I believe it is important to have
> time and space for men and women to talk amongst
> themselves and know that they will not be disturbed.
> Even if official single sex spaces are not allowed at
> this conference I hope that all of the men and women
> who need to be and talk amongst their own sex feel
> empowered enough to create these spaces for themselves
> be it in a park, be it in a bus , be it on the street,
> or in a cafe, to make this time for yourselves and
> know you have a right to BE and to defend YOUR SPACE.
> love and rage
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