[Breakingthesilence] Fw: [Pga_europe_process] Gender Questionnaires: still hard to handle.

Bosa Janjusevic bosa.j at yubc.net
Jeu 29 Avr 01:04:34 CEST 2004


  Hi. 

  I think it would be good to give better explanation of women-only and men-only groups. I've just read the last e-mail at the process list that Fabian sent... I didn't notice that the questionnaire might look like a psychological manipulation... 

  Fabian said: 
  "The questionnaire leads up to the proposal that women should be banned
  from certain meetings. It makes it seem a reasonable suggestion."
  ... 
  and: 
  "Men have nothing to fear from women. We should not pander to mysogynist
  fantasies. This is what is being promoted. That a group of men should
  come together and say that no woman should be allowed to come in. This
  is how men organise against women."
   
  Hopefully, this doesn't sound like out of context... I have feeling that this is a lack of understanding... 

  The first part of the 9 b) might be confusing: 
  "what do you think/feel about men taking the time to meet amongst themselves as a way of stimulating reflection and action about the way that men can (consciously or unconsciously) dominate or oppress women"

  but there is more after that: 
  "and try to develop constructive strategies in working against oppressive masculine behaviours and the restrictive nature of socially imposed gender constructions?" 

  I don't understand the problem... Except that we should talk more about race/ethnicity and class, so "why gender?!"... hmm... I don't see that these issues exclude each other... 

  Bosa



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: paki.tv at cyber-rights.net 
  To: pga_europe_process at squat.net 
  Cc: xxactive at no-log.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:54 PM
  Subject: [Pga_europe_process] Gender Questionnaires: still hard to handle.


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  xxactive at no-log.org wrote:
  >hey all.
  >the questionnaire was send by the gender working group. the idea
  >is to spread it with the application form. the answers should go to
  the
  >gender working group mailinglist: breakingthesilence at gendertrouble.org
  >(they can also be send to the process list, but it risk to be a lot
  of >work for you as list moderator). you can send them directly to me
  (i >am moderating the gender list) we didn't ask names, it should be
  >anonymous. we want to find an appropriated form to present the answers
  >at the conference. inga

  Hey, I thought the idea was that we had some sort of a discussion to
  reach consensus before we started doing things.

  Having raised some serious issues about problems with the questionnaire
  on this list, the response has been pretty much silence except for someone
  suggesting that perhaps the questionnaire should be reworded.

  I do not think it is a matter or rewording. I have come to question the
  whole basis of the questionaire.

  Far from attempting some serious sort of understanding around gender
  issues, the questionaire functions as a rhetorical tool which introduces
  the participant to an idea in a hiddenway, in a hope towards making them
  more favourable to that idea.

  In the estate where I live the process of privitisation involves these
  techniques. These are tried and tested techniques of psychological manipulation
  which have been utilised so well particularly in America.

  I am really more than upset to see this being proposed here.

  The questionnaire leads up to the proposal that women should be banned
  from certain meetings. It makes it seem a reasonable suggestion.

  Having looked at the Breaking The Silence at
  http://gendertrouble.org/marchives/breakingthesilence/2004-April/thread.html,
   it does not make me happy.

  There seems to be a psychologising going on. It is not nice. It is rhetoric.
  Please stop this.

  Now in my life and from looking at what goes on across the world and
  in history the sorry story of violence, destruction, ecological catastrophy,
   exploitation and oppression has overwhelming been carried out by men.

  So in a patriarchal society there may be occasions when people quite
  rightly decide to exclude men.

  However when people continually use this to advance the idea that there
  should be "non-mixed" groups this is, at one level a denial of the issue
  of patriarchy in the consideration of the issue. Having played its rhetorical
  role, patriarchy is set aside as if it had already been dealt with, and
  then men-only groups started getting discussed.

  At first glance, this may seem to be fair enough. If women can restrict
  men from the meetings why shouldn't men restrict women? Surely that's
  equality? What's the problem?

  It is the difference between a practical solution to a practical problem
  - - dealing with the fact that men are responsible for a large majority
  of the violence, oppression, exploitation and destruction in the world
  and women are those who suffer the most from this opporession and violence,
   and a mysogynist abstraction.

  What is it that the men proposing this want to say when there are no
  women present?

  Men have nothing to fear from women. We should not pander to mysogynist
  fantasies. This is what is being promoted. That a group of men should
  come together and say that no woman should be allowed to come in. This
  is how men organise against women.

  I want to block the circulation of the questionnaire with application
  form.

  West Essex Zapatista





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