[Pga_europe_process] Re: Potpun Govore Ali ...

Andrej Grubacic zapata at sezampro.yu
Mon Jun 7 20:24:39 CEST 2004

Dear Asim,

I trust your best intentions. I am myself not interested in personal
arguments. I can offer you some arguments from personal perspective, and
this is what I have done. Hope some of it was helpful. As for the question
you raised:

>anyway, we have proposed that the warning
"Warning: Peoples Global Action is run by a bureaucratic clique riven
with racism, sexism and pro-western imperialism."
go on all further publicity. that proposal still stands, and it is yet
to be discussed, no arguments have been put forward as to why this warning
is not appropriate.<

My argument would be that pga conference prep work is not being 'run by'
anybody, it is a collective process open to everybody who would like to jump
in, with an eye on pga hallmarks. Secondly, accusing a group from Belgrade,
all of them witnesses of 'humanitarian bombing' many of us will remember for
a long time to come, to be 'pro western imperialists', is a bit distasteful-
and certainly not correct.

Racism: I second your insistence of reformulation of the meeting - pga in
Europe sounds fine, and I think that this argument is on mark. I would
propose to others to start implementing this- as many already did.

Sexism is a very important topic and there is a gender group working on the
best proposals for both, organizational process and conference itself. As
far as I understood, you have/had some criticism re their work. They have
replied and I hope that this dialogue, if constructive, will continue.

DSM! has been very active in promoting pga conference in eastern Europe. Our
friends from _Abolishing the Borders from Below_ were of great help in this
regard. PGA contact team was also busy. DSM mail box is full of questions
from EE. I hope that presence is going to be adequate to the interest
expressed in emails.  However, for too many of reasons, nobody can guarantee
a success in this respect.

People engaged in pga conference preparation work are certainly riven with
many things but , from our local standpoint, this would include tiredness,
exhaustion, neglect of local fights and issues, burnouts, emotional,
professional, political and other challenges...... But I wouldn't say that
this group of people- local and from Europe and surrounding areas- promotes
sexism, racism and imperialism. More accurate would be that we are not very
good in confronting it, despite our efforts. It would be important if we
would , during this organizational process, to find and establish a way (s),
mechanism (s), constructive ideas so we could pass them on to the next

Otherwise, and especially without more on-the -ground- help coming from
people internationally, this years conference is not going to happen- but
not because of political incorrectness.

All of this is not to say that your criticism is not serious and should not
be taken and recognized as such. What I am arguing here for is to make the
criticism as constructive as possible, so we could have a successful
organizational process leading to a successful conference. Mistakes we make
we should try to correct and make it easier for the next convenor organizing
a conference in Europe.

Perhaps a good way to proceed is some sort of collective assessment: to
prepare, for the conference, and before, for this list, a balance sheet of
things which should be (un)done. Regional structure, support group,
infopoints, sexism and nationalism, racism and inadequate language,
visibility and role of the pga, relationship of global and local,
organization of a network - all the things you, and all of us, think that
should be bettered, improved and critically challenged.

Also, I do hope that other people and other groups are going to address
issues you raised, with proper arguments.


----- Original Message -----
From: <paki.tv at cyber-rights.net>
To: <zapata at sezampro.yu>; <decorte at eunet.yu>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:21 PM
Subject: Potpun Govore Ali ...

> Hash: SHA1
> hi milan and andrej i reply to u both together to save time.
> i am sorry to get so upset and to make u upset, but i am not at all
> in personal responses. what we need now is political arguments and
> as to how to move this forward. i understand there is alot of pressure,
>  but we can delay the conference if need be. please remember that there
> are important issues being discussed here. MORE important than just the
> organisation of a conference. it is not my foremost concern that this
> conference happens. given the nonchalant attitude to racism, imperialism,
>  nationalism and sexism that pervade this organisational process i am
> coming to the opinion that it may be a more "politically correct" action
> to make sure this conference does NOT happen at all.
> we have been raising issues of eurocentricity and specifically the racist
> connotations of the word european since we first got involved in this
> organisational process. and yet people are suprised when iam getting
> pissed off at the same racist language and ideologies being carried
> into practice.
> yes i was in belgrade, responding to a call for assistance, and trusting
> your selves and your decisions. Joyce and I took 2 bundles of the printed
> call to Sarajevo where we distributed copies in shops, universities,
> to NGOs and on the streets.
> when Fabian and i went to the EYFA conference in Tabor, Czech, we took
> copies of the call with us and discussed the conference with people from
> Tajikstan, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria and other places. we had
> mixed responses, but it was here that i really noticed that no language
> east of belgrade was included on the printed call. still, i hoped that
> these groups and individuals getting involved will really CHANGE the
> PGA network. now, i am really doubting whether this is possible.
> anyway, we have proposed that the warning
> "Warning: Peoples Global Action is run by a bureaucratic clique riven
> with racism, sexism and pro-western imperialism."
> go on all further publicity. that proposal still stands, and it is yet
> to be discussed, no arguments have been put forward as to why this warning
> is not appropriate.
> We have blocked the proposal for men-only spaces at the conference and
> yet there has been no discussion on this issue either. all we hear is
> that there will be an informal discussion outside of the meetings. the
> same goes for the finance discussion: why is funding for bands expenses
> such a priority while funding for eastern european groups involvement
> not a priority?
> i will calm down once i get a discussion of the issues raised, instead
> of personal excuses and anecdotes.
> until then,
> xAsim
> >
> >[Pga_europe_process] PGA web
> >           Date:
> >Fri, 04 Jun 2004
> >19:53:44 +0200
> >
> >slazem se potpuno sa asimom. ni meni se ne svidja
> >kultur/imperijalistcki ton koji vlada u pga procesu,
> >te sam odlucio da se od sada borim za to da se
> >mejlovi na ovu listu salju ISKLJUCIVO na jezicima
> >koji se govore istocno od beograda. i pored toga sto
> >sam svestan da ce to u velikoj meri otezati komunikaciju,
> >i da smo se na prethodnom prep sastanku u londonu
> >dogovorili oko koriscenja jezika (prevoda) na konferenciji
> >ja cu od sada pisati samo na svom maternjem jeziku
> >koji razumeju i hrvati i bosanci a koji ne znam kako
> >da nazovem zbog politicke korektnosti. sta vise, iz
> >ovih stopa idem da spalim sve recnike engleskog jezika,
> >a pokucacu i kod komsija (mozda mi se neko od njih
> >pridruzi). napolju pada kisa ali nam nece biti hladno.
> >
> >milan
> >
> >jugoistocno zemunski fanatista
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