[Pga_europe_process] Re: we must lynch javier, he is a violent racist and a traitor that works on the ESF

Tapio Laakso tapio.laakso at iki.fi
Thu Jun 24 21:55:38 CEST 2004


About participating to Social Forums.

I think the point in participating Socila Forums could be the simple thing
that there are lots of interesting people, groups and movements around.
For example considering ESF, the presence of immigrants, sans-papiers
movements is important. That makes ESF a formu where it is possible to
create contacts and networks with these people.

On the other hand we did not participate Finnish Social Forum this year as
only ones present are old leftist that are present everywhere anyway.
Another year we participated because we were able to arrange interesting
speaker there whose travel costs someone else paid.

Of course Social Forums won't change anything but if it is posible to meet
good people and share some radical thoughts then why not? We really should
not make another "purity issue" out of this =)

Tapio


On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, diañu burlon wrote:
> I promised Vanja to come back  Europe in a couple of weeks. ( I am stucked
> in Delhi). Are you going to be around? I really would like to disscuss with
> you regarding the social forum. What on the hell are you doing there? I
> really don´t understand why lost energy and time in it. More. I don´t
> understand why to be there to legitimaze it. I read a couple of emails on
> the issue months ago, but I didn´t want to enter into the discussion. But I
> was very surprise that someone wrote that we will be isolated as movements
> if we don´t participate. If that is the case,  I really want to be
> isolated. It is clear that the biggest strengh of PGA Asia is the good
> analisis they have of those spaces and the radical position of the
> movements, and don´t let themselves to be eaten by such spaces, as it is
> happening in LA.  I don´t think it is a question of spending hours
> critizazing the WSF, who funds it and so on, but...whatever, I would really
> like to hear your opinion  regarding this issue.
>
>
>
> kisses,
> trasgu
>
>
>
>
>
> At 15:27 22/06/2004 +0100, javier wrote:
> >Dear WE Zapatistas
> >
> >I can only assume you were writing about me. I am sorry about the delay
> >in my reply, I was in the ESF preparation meeting in Berlin, very hard
> >work.
> >
> >Lets clarify a few things. I didn´t write the lines below. I quote
> >replied to another message.
> >
> >It is true that we had a discussion on the word ghetto in Belgrade,
> >where people explained the different arguments for and against its use
> >in this context. That's why in my letter to Nina I actually wrote
> >"breaking self-imposed ghettos" a formulation I find appropriate, and
> >you can call me whatever.
> >
> >I am getting used to people using identity politics as a way to end
> >discussions. It happens all the time in the UK social forum, where the
> >diverse SWP front groups morally blackmail us on these lines: "If you
> >are against my politics you are against all the million
> >refugees/women/migrants, etc..." corollary: you are a racist/sexist,
> >etc. We were even accused of being against Nelson Mandela for demanding
> >a proper democratic process for choosing guest star speakers!!
> >
> >What I find quite sad is to see the same thing happening in the PGA
> >process.
> >
> >This takes me to the next point: my forthcoming holiday in Belgrade. I
> >was hoping the ESF would put me a proper bureaucrat dacha by the Black
> >Sea, but things are not as good as in the old days... so I will have to
> >settle by sharing a dusty field with lots of lousy dreadlocked
> >anarchohippies. I just hope there are no cameras! Rather dead than seen
> >having gone so low in life.
> >
> >I admit this is my motivation, but not what I told my Essex Zapatista
> >friends, they could only be guessing. What I told them was that I was
> >spending a lot of energy working behind the lines in enemy field, ie the
> >ESF process, to carve out space for the type of non-authoritarian
> >politics we share around PGA of decentralisation, autonomy, diversity,
> >etc. And that I really didn't have the energy to engage with their
> >arguments, or more precisely with their style of arguing.
> >
> >What could have been understood as a holiday is that I said that for me
> >the ESF was the place to fight with all the SWP, etc, and the PGA the
> >place were we could have a different dynamic, less emotionally draining.
> >You can read this as the difference between politics and holiday, or as
> >someone who hopes one day politics will be modelled on something other
> >than war and conflict, and we could be that beginning.
> >
> >ciao, javier
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 07:16, paki.tv at cyber-rights.net wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 06:37:59 -0700 javier <javier at spc.org> wrote:
> > > >Global movement : Are we a mouvement ? what next ? Going out of the
> > > >ghetto ? : skrati[AT]yahoo.com / javier[AT]spc.org
> > > >>
> > >
> > > We have had a discussion about the use of the word Ghetto and its use
> > > in this way has been shown to be racist.
> > >
> > > What does that mean?
> > >
> > > It means that when discussions are put out with this heading, is thta
> > > most Black people will be less inclined to attend the conference because
> > > they know the organisers are taking the piss.
> > >
> > > As this is an issue which has already been raised, I can only assume
> > > that the use of it here is deliberate, a sort of "hardboy" machismo about
> > > not caring for sissy quibbles.
> > >
> > > After the postponement of PGA meeting the author spoke to us dissmissively
> > > suggesting that the issues we were raising were trvial.
> > >
> > > This is how institutional racism works in the PGA.
> > >
> > > The final insult was to be told that they considered their work in the
> > > European Social Forum as their real political work, and PGA as a holiday
> > > . . . this from a person who the PGA paid to go to a preparatory meeting
> > > in Belgrade.
> > >
> > > How can these issues be left to the conference when it is precisely now,
> > >  just as Nico himself pointed out, the white middle class guys are going
> > > around dominating.
> > >
> > > Seems like these alternatives to capitalism are simply the same old "shit"
> > > (to use one of Nico's favourite terms) in new bottles.
> > >
> > > That's all for now, folks!
> > >
> > > West Essex Zapatista
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> >
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--
Tapio Laakso


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