[Pga_europe_process] Social Forum

diañu burlon dianhuburlon at gmx.net
Tue Jun 29 13:18:05 CEST 2004


Dear Tapio,

I agree with you regarding the participation of very interesting people, 
groups and movement in the Social Forum, and other forums like the 
Mesoamerican Forum, etc. I have attending the Mesoamerican Meeting and 
others like that myself (and i really dislike strongly them) and I want to 
continue doing it if I need to. In fact if I don´t go this summer to the 
Mesoamerican (parallel to the "Against dams and privatization of water, 
etc" and the "week on biodiversity" in El Salvador, is exclusivily because 
of lack of funds for the travel. But in fact we are promoting a LA meeting 
of PGA to take place (out of the oficial meeting of course), for various 
reasons, I am  not going to enter now. And in fact the serious good 
grassroot contact we have in Costa Rica we made in such MM. But 
legitimazing the forum with the presence of the social movement or our 
colectives in coordination preparatory meetings and being in fact part of 
the body is another thing. But even bit by bit, as far as the other 
political process as PGA, starts to get strong in a region, participation 
in this spaces should be minimize to avoid legitimation and specially 
creating a false image of the alternative spaces, strongly attacked by the 
SF and other social networks depending on SF and NGOs.

Some of the organizations part of the PGA process in Asia, attending in 
January both meeting, some even the three meetings: WSF, People´s Encounter 
II and Mumbai Resistance. But not as organizers. And the analisies, as I 
told, were quite clear and powerful regarding the WSF and the reasons of 
its existance. I heared things like "WSF is an invention of USA, and 
funding by big TNCs through their big NGOs as Ford Fundation,  to control 
the protest and the movements". Well, in my opinion things are not so 
simple, of course. But if you compare this situation with Latin America, is 
quite different. In Latin America, where NGOs are really more powerful and 
have most space for manipulating and using the movements, the WSF is eaten 
all spaces. The former convenor of PGA from farmers, are now organizing the 
Americas Social Forum. At the same time, PGA is getting invisible there. Of 
course, it is not so simple the evaluation of the reason of such 
invisibility, but one thing is clear: organizations don´t want to be 
isolated, they want to meet with other interesting organizations, bla, bla...
There is also special cases like Colombia. If I have to go to the European 
Parlament to collect the shitty signatures of shitty european 
parlamentaries to prevent a masacre, I will do it, without any hesitation.

But I know which is my place,which are very puntual and necesary contacts, 
which are very coyuntural necesary alliance (without loosing my nord and 
the clarity in "the target and the way to get the target" even during 
"those coyuntural alliances"),  and which is long term work, allianze and 
project.

So for me,  attending the Social Forum could be necesary in a puntual 
moment, regarding contacts and collecting information. But even regarding 
contacts, I would say, that onces you have a trustful entrance in a country 
or region, it is more useful and efficient to travel through the regions, 
visiting the movements and understand local situation. Because also many 
times, the "interesting" people of the Social Forum can tell many stories 
and at the end being only one visit card or a very shity organization.
Helping organizing Social Forum at this time of the strugle, I think is 
useless, energy eating and in somehow legitimazing the space.
But I don´t know the situation now in Europe, not also how discussion has 
been developed laterly. As I said, I didn´t have time in the moment to get 
into the discussion. This is why I would like to speak with Javier, to see 
how things are and what are his expectations, since knowing Javier, and 
really having a lot of trust in his political analysis, I think that maybe 
there is more there that I have though about.

Saludillos,
trasgu


At 22:55 24/06/2004 +0300, Tapio Laakso wrote:
>About participating to Social Forums.
>
>I think the point in participating Socila Forums could be the simple thing
>that there are lots of interesting people, groups and movements around.
>For example considering ESF, the presence of immigrants, sans-papiers
>movements is important. That makes ESF a formu where it is possible to
>create contacts and networks with these people.
>
>On the other hand we did not participate Finnish Social Forum this year as
>only ones present are old leftist that are present everywhere anyway.
>Another year we participated because we were able to arrange interesting
>speaker there whose travel costs someone else paid.
>
>Of course Social Forums won't change anything but if it is posible to meet
>good people and share some radical thoughts then why not? We really should
>not make another "purity issue" out of this =)
>
>Tapio
>
>
>On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, diañu burlon wrote:
> > I promised Vanja to come back  Europe in a couple of weeks. ( I am stucked
> > in Delhi). Are you going to be around? I really would like to disscuss with
> > you regarding the social forum. What on the hell are you doing there? I
> > really don´t understand why lost energy and time in it. More. I don´t
> > understand why to be there to legitimaze it. I read a couple of emails on
> > the issue months ago, but I didn´t want to enter into the discussion. But I
> > was very surprise that someone wrote that we will be isolated as movements
> > if we don´t participate. If that is the case,  I really want to be
> > isolated. It is clear that the biggest strengh of PGA Asia is the good
> > analisis they have of those spaces and the radical position of the
> > movements, and don´t let themselves to be eaten by such spaces, as it is
> > happening in LA.  I don´t think it is a question of spending hours
> > critizazing the WSF, who funds it and so on, but...whatever, I would really
> > like to hear your opinion  regarding this issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > kisses,
> > trasgu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 15:27 22/06/2004 +0100, javier wrote:
> > >Dear WE Zapatistas
> > >
> > >I can only assume you were writing about me. I am sorry about the delay
> > >in my reply, I was in the ESF preparation meeting in Berlin, very hard
> > >work.
> > >
> > >Lets clarify a few things. I didn´t write the lines below. I quote
> > >replied to another message.
> > >
> > >It is true that we had a discussion on the word ghetto in Belgrade,
> > >where people explained the different arguments for and against its use
> > >in this context. That's why in my letter to Nina I actually wrote
> > >"breaking self-imposed ghettos" a formulation I find appropriate, and
> > >you can call me whatever.
> > >
> > >I am getting used to people using identity politics as a way to end
> > >discussions. It happens all the time in the UK social forum, where the
> > >diverse SWP front groups morally blackmail us on these lines: "If you
> > >are against my politics you are against all the million
> > >refugees/women/migrants, etc..." corollary: you are a racist/sexist,
> > >etc. We were even accused of being against Nelson Mandela for demanding
> > >a proper democratic process for choosing guest star speakers!!
> > >
> > >What I find quite sad is to see the same thing happening in the PGA
> > >process.
> > >
> > >This takes me to the next point: my forthcoming holiday in Belgrade. I
> > >was hoping the ESF would put me a proper bureaucrat dacha by the Black
> > >Sea, but things are not as good as in the old days... so I will have to
> > >settle by sharing a dusty field with lots of lousy dreadlocked
> > >anarchohippies. I just hope there are no cameras! Rather dead than seen
> > >having gone so low in life.
> > >
> > >I admit this is my motivation, but not what I told my Essex Zapatista
> > >friends, they could only be guessing. What I told them was that I was
> > >spending a lot of energy working behind the lines in enemy field, ie the
> > >ESF process, to carve out space for the type of non-authoritarian
> > >politics we share around PGA of decentralisation, autonomy, diversity,
> > >etc. And that I really didn't have the energy to engage with their
> > >arguments, or more precisely with their style of arguing.
> > >
> > >What could have been understood as a holiday is that I said that for me
> > >the ESF was the place to fight with all the SWP, etc, and the PGA the
> > >place were we could have a different dynamic, less emotionally draining.
> > >You can read this as the difference between politics and holiday, or as
> > >someone who hopes one day politics will be modelled on something other
> > >than war and conflict, and we could be that beginning.
> > >
> > >ciao, javier
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 07:16, paki.tv at cyber-rights.net wrote:
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 06:37:59 -0700 javier <javier at spc.org> wrote:
> > > > >Global movement : Are we a mouvement ? what next ? Going out of the
> > > > >ghetto ? : skrati[AT]yahoo.com / javier[AT]spc.org
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > We have had a discussion about the use of the word Ghetto and its use
> > > > in this way has been shown to be racist.
> > > >
> > > > What does that mean?
> > > >
> > > > It means that when discussions are put out with this heading, is thta
> > > > most Black people will be less inclined to attend the conference 
> because
> > > > they know the organisers are taking the piss.
> > > >
> > > > As this is an issue which has already been raised, I can only assume
> > > > that the use of it here is deliberate, a sort of "hardboy" machismo 
> about
> > > > not caring for sissy quibbles.
> > > >
> > > > After the postponement of PGA meeting the author spoke to us 
> dissmissively
> > > > suggesting that the issues we were raising were trvial.
> > > >
> > > > This is how institutional racism works in the PGA.
> > > >
> > > > The final insult was to be told that they considered their work in the
> > > > European Social Forum as their real political work, and PGA as a 
> holiday
> > > > . . . this from a person who the PGA paid to go to a preparatory 
> meeting
> > > > in Belgrade.
> > > >
> > > > How can these issues be left to the conference when it is precisely 
> now,
> > > >  just as Nico himself pointed out, the white middle class guys are 
> going
> > > > around dominating.
> > > >
> > > > Seems like these alternatives to capitalism are simply the same old 
> "shit"
> > > > (to use one of Nico's favourite terms) in new bottles.
> > > >
> > > > That's all for now, folks!
> > > >
> > > > West Essex Zapatista
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > Note: This signature can be verified at 
> https://www.hushtools.com/verify
> > > > Version: Hush 2.4
> > > >
> > > > wkYEARECAAYFAkDRNx0ACgkQyf+VSI0vK4YqXwCgmX1X6IpHZJ+Svj7XtMz08LRe60gA
> > > > oL3Q2aDTxCXHljdbys6kRtAKjrYu
> > > > =7D57
> > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Get your free encrypted email at http://www.cyber-rights.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Pga_europe_process mailing list
> > >Pga_europe_process at squat.net
> > >https://squat.net/mailman/listinfo/pga_europe_process
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pga_europe_process mailing list
> > Pga_europe_process at squat.net
> > https://squat.net/mailman/listinfo/pga_europe_process
> >
>
>--
>Tapio Laakso
>_______________________________________________
>Pga_europe_process mailing list
>Pga_europe_process at squat.net
>https://squat.net/mailman/listinfo/pga_europe_process




More information about the Pga_europe_process mailing list